Pickering to Premier: "Your Legacy is at Stake"
BVI Platinum News
July 28, 2010 7:58 am AST
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Hon. Kedrick Pickering
Photo Credit: BVI Platinum News
"I will urge you Mr. Premier, that not only that you have much at stake in terms of your Government, but you have much at stake in terms of your own legacy because you are disenfranchising our own people," Seventh District Representative, Hon. Kedrick Pickering told Premier Hon. Ralph T. O´Neal during last Thursday's sitting of the House Assembly.

A passionate Pickering was at the time venting his frustration over the entire BiWater issue and the allegations that a foreign company is likely to come in to run the Baugher´s Bay Plant.

Pickering told the House that the issue is now a national one, because the BVI Investment Club cannot be allowed to fail.

He said that he is hurt over the fact that the Government is eager to negotiate with another company to run the Baugher´s Bay Plant over Ocean Conversion.

"Why that same degree of urgency that is being done to negotiate with another company for Baugher´s Bay Plant could not be done with Ocean Conversion? It begs the question as to what else is going on...The urgency to have an agreement with other people...It really boggles my mind. All OC was asking for is an opportunity to sit down and negotiate an operational agreement with the Government of the day. It has gotten to the point where the issue is troubling...We are advancing money to a company without a contract...it's a serious national issue. I am deeply troubled about this entire situation," Pickering opined.

The Seventh District Representative said that the entire situation is sad and causes him to have sleepless nights.

"The whole issue of how you are treating our own people surrounding the water and what the implications are...the continual darkness that surrounds this issue. It is worrying to me and my spirit is deeply troubled. And it´s not going away. I cannot sleep anytime I think about it. How can we disenfranchise our own people so blatantly," he questioned.

Premier Hon. Ralph T. O'Neal
Photo Credit: BVI Platinum News
Meanwhile, Minister for Education and Culture, Hon. Andrew Fahie during his contribution told the House that the problem in the BVI is not the BiWater issue, but one of philosophy and until that changes, it will continue to be said that the country is in trouble.

The First District Representative reminded the House of what took place in 2000 where a local company was hired to address the sewerage issues, but in 2003 when the National Democratic Party (NDP) took office, that local company was eliminated, allowing the foreign company Global Water to do the sewerage.

According to Fahie, two wrongs in politics will never make a right and if they are going to look at BiWater, they must not forget about Global Water.
Copyright 2010 by VI Platinum News. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Readers' Opinion ( 70 Opinions )
The opinions of users on this website.
Conflict of Interest
July 28, 2010 - 3:02 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 21 ) ▪ Dislike ( 2 ) ▪ Report Abuse
The BVI Investment Club is the biggest conflict of interest issue I have heard of. In the UK, Canada and US, politicians and acting government officials are prohibited in investing in programs they can control for a private profit. Paul Martin, the last Canadian Prime Minister underwent huge... more
VIP was a protest vote, not a vote for them
July 28, 2010 - 3:02 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 16 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
The VIP think people voted them in last time because they wanted them. A lot of people voted VIP because they didn't want the NDP/Investment Club not because they wanted the VIP and its same old ways back again. If a third party stands we could get the VIP out. But the NDP want to plan bring in... more
No impact
July 28, 2010 - 9:09 PM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 9 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Third party cannot come at this stage and make any impact, so don't be fool
PLEASE!
July 28, 2010 - 12:07 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 14 ) ▪ Dislike ( 3 ) ▪ Report Abuse
The Investment Club is to big to fail; CRAP!! I never trusted that man Pickering from the time Guana Island adopted him as its god son. Right now the BVI is between a rock and a hard place. We cannot return the VIP to power as they do not have a streight bone in their body and to re instate the... more
Well Said!
July 28, 2010 - 2:50 PM AST ▪ Like ( 23 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Trust me, i dont know who you are, but what you said is exactly and 100% the truth! There is no way that we can allow the NDP to come in with their arrogance and favoritism and reinstating the VIP with their spineless attitude would be detrimental! The BVI needs a third party, one the is young,... more
spines
July 28, 2010 - 3:11 PM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
the VIP had those same spineless attitude three years ago. we aint just learning that but the people did not want to see vision from the NDP party so they voted them out. the spineless attitude is still there just on different spines.
No Need for a Third Party
July 28, 2010 - 3:45 PM AST ▪ Like ( 4 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
All that is needed in both parties, are new people with new ideas, visions, educated and who may have spent time away from the BVI for a while.
To Please
July 29, 2010 - 6:09 PM AST ▪ Like ( 1 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Do you know any young BVIslander of political leanings who is intelligent with common sense and can read and write? The current politicos have faults its true but the future generation that I come in contact with have loyalty neither to God nor man muchl ess country, are crooks or crooks in... more
Plenty of good kids in the BVI
July 29, 2010 - 9:49 PM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
That simply isn't true. There are a lot of good, intelligent kids at the HLSCC. You should go and see the students in the UWI law classes at night if you want to see possible future lawyers and lawmakers. They are hardworking - they work in the day, study at night and very much people of integrity.
Why
July 28, 2010 - 11:01 AM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
Why does it have to be an issue of which party wins? What about the issue of who can run the country? What about the issue of who is looking out for the best interest of our people? This thing about party voting is what puts this country in trouble in the first place.
Confucius
July 29, 2010 - 10:07 AM AST ▪ Like ( 10 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
The "issue" about which party wins is what each party plans to do when/if they get elected.

My problem with BOTH parties is that there are very few candidates I would like (or trust) to represent my interests. If it weren't for the Beef Island debacle, I would likely vote NDP. However,... more
Agree
July 29, 2010 - 11:23 AM AST ▪ Like ( 4 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
I am sure that the NDP will get the Beef Island development out of its system, they know that the people of the BVI do not want it and the court ruled aganist it. What is needed is new faces in both parties, by the way do you know that Dr: Smith, Dr: Pickering and Ms: Penn are cousins and Malone... more
Cousins
July 29, 2010 - 2:21 PM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
Closer than cousins, Dr Smith and Mark Vanterpool are brothers-in-law. Lorna Smith, Heskith and Mark are all siblings. If Audley Maduro runs, he is Dr Smith's brother-in-law too (Delma (nee Davies) is Dr Smith's sister). That family like public life and some of them have contributed a lot to the... more
Cousins
July 29, 2010 - 4:43 PM AST ▪ Like ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
Delma is not Dr: Smith's sister, she is his aunt, Dr: Smith does not have nay sisters.
BVI ISLANDER IN USVI
July 28, 2010 - 10:13 AM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 9 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Mr. Pickering , my opinion is you should encourage people to go back to building cisterns. This fuss about water companies is ridiculous .Yes the home company are the money people as usual .We BVI islanders were always independant people .Doc Pickering , please come up with a new platform for... more
New Water Co
July 28, 2010 - 11:33 AM AST ▪ Like ( 1 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
I will start a new water company, the water will be delivered by trucks to cisterns or other water containers at private homes.
cisterns
July 28, 2010 - 3:09 PM AST ▪ Like ( 5 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
building cisterns is mandatory in the bvi as part of the building code.
code?
July 28, 2010 - 6:56 PM AST ▪ Like ( 9 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
waht building code. there are so many things ignored when building privately on weekends with cousins, uncles etc. any setbacks from property lines and road? any parking? any height restrictions? any consideration of neighbors' lands and views? some of the most horendous, huge mansions... more
VOTER
July 28, 2010 - 1:12 AM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 13 ) ▪ Dislike ( 3 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Trust me, if we can get rid of Ralph, Omar, Fraser and Fahie, the VIP would be better of. My advice to all voters is to take a long look at the voters list and eliminate those crooks who use their position to fatten their accounts.
peter crumble
July 28, 2010 - 9:16 AM AST ▪ Like ( 5 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
And get rid of Dancia Penn to.
Voter is right
July 28, 2010 - 9:38 AM AST ▪ Like ( 5 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
You are so right. Miss Penn would like that very much indeed too.
vip loyalist
July 28, 2010 - 9:46 AM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ( 2 ) ▪ Report Abuse
like you ndp's aint recovered from those blows yet...next time you'll get plenty more..keep on yapping online
Abby
July 28, 2010 - 10:45 AM AST ▪ Like ( 4 ) ▪ Dislike ( 2 ) ▪ Report Abuse
vip loyalist do not worry your blows is there to come. I hope you can take them.
to voter
July 28, 2010 - 11:29 AM AST ▪ Like ( 1 ) ▪ Dislike ( 11 ) ▪ Report Abuse
sorry to say but mr fahie ain goin nowhere. he is indeed a good man. He doing more than anybody in vip. fraser yes bcas he ain no good he single- handedly taking apart this country. and as for our premier his time is up. i can hardly understand a word this man is saying and i am sick of his poor... more
to "to voter"
July 28, 2010 - 7:05 PM AST ▪ Like ( 9 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
isn't that just what ndp did? give away our money to foreign companies, developers and branding consultants? Instead of retreading the same tired corrupt and arrogant self-important people... people in each district have to get together and decide who might be a good replacement based on... more
vip loyalist
July 27, 2010 - 9:36 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 14 ) ▪ Dislike ( 4 ) ▪ Report Abuse
pickering only making noise because he and his klan wont be getting no more big attrocious dividends this coming xmas
to fahie
July 27, 2010 - 8:05 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 5 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Fahie you just keep disappointing me. First you let Fraser use you to try to place the blame of electricity sending the money to biwater without a contrat. When you fully well new that the minsitry of com and works send the money to electricity and ask them to send it to bowater. You allways... more
Bad Investment
July 27, 2010 - 7:47 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 12 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
BVI Investment has never put food on my or my five children's plate . I am absolutely sick of them implying that the fate of the BVI economic stability lies in these bunch of greedy and pompous individuals. We need both locals and foreigners in order for us to strive. We only see how much people... more
reality
July 27, 2010 - 6:46 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 10 ) ▪ Dislike ( 8 ) ▪ Report Abuse
The remarks by Hon. Fahie is the silliest I have ever heard. The two do not compare. First thing is when global water came in cbe was not providing a service to the people of the bvi. Secondly the rug was not pulled from under them. Thirdly, nobody went to hide behind nobody back to sign no... more
All of us should be in the Club
July 27, 2010 - 6:12 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 25 ) ▪ Dislike ( 3 ) ▪ Report Abuse
All politicians need to declare if they are part of the BVI Investment Club when they standing. As it is a lot of people think they are the well-off elite who want government to consider them first and foremost and want to make policy to benefit themselves and not the rest of us, Virgin Islander... more
Conflict of Interest
July 28, 2010 - 9:00 AM AST ▪ Like ( 18 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
When members of the government own a for profit entity that owns the infrastructure of the country, whose interests will they serve first? Hint: Not the people's. If the BVI Investment Club fails, it is because of the decisions made by its shareholders and leadership. Neither the government nor... more
Lb
July 28, 2010 - 9:40 AM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ( 9 ) ▪ Report Abuse
That declaration is made EVERY election!

They worked hard to develop these businesses, and now you expect them to just give it away to you, so you can feel better?

Why don't you get up off your lazy butt and form an investment group with your family and friends? Why don't you... more
to LB
July 28, 2010 - 11:42 AM AST ▪ Like ( 9 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Well your initials give yourself away. You are a politician and major investor and what you have written on this website makes it clear that you feel that the future of the NDP, BVI Investment Club and Country are bound up together. REAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

Who is it on this forum who... more
list
July 29, 2010 - 7:17 AM AST ▪ Like ( 8 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
There was a declaration made of holdings by persons running for office. Unfortunately, the elected officials chose to make that "public" piece of paper private in order to keep the wool over the sheep's eyes. They could then say that they had declared all of their interests, and still... more
Where is the list?
July 29, 2010 - 2:23 PM AST ▪ Like ( 4 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
Where is this list kept? Why can it not be published?
To Scary Mary
July 27, 2010 - 5:51 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 10 ) ▪ Dislike ( 22 ) ▪ Report Abuse
NDP may have made the mistake of not coming to the people and explaining the benefits of what they were trying to do but as you can see there is NO development ongoing in the Territory. Furthermore, there is no 5-Star Hotel on Tortola day by day BVIslanders who opposed that project are changing... more
Mirror!
July 27, 2010 - 9:22 PM AST ▪ Like ( 1 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
NDP/VIP six of one half a dozen of the other.....Your comments make no sense! The problem is not the NDP or the VIP, its the people supporting and breathing life into these parties. When election is announced and polling day is upon us, I would vote for the lesser of the two evils.......
no development
July 27, 2010 - 11:37 PM AST ▪ Like ( 14 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
seems reports are that tourism is up for this time of year, based on charters and repeats. there is no need for a 5-star because we can't fill the hotels we have now. we have a unique product in the caribbean, that of lesser development while still using US dollar, being close to St Thomas and... more
Leopards both
July 28, 2010 - 12:00 AM AST ▪ Like ( 14 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If the VIP ain't changing its spots, seems like the NDP ain't either. You are just proposing exactly the same things as you were voted out for. A 5-star resort 50% owned by a hotel group and 50% by the BVI Investment Club. And the rest of us I... more
resident
July 27, 2010 - 4:35 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 19 ) ▪ Dislike ( 4 ) ▪ Report Abuse
I can't belive that Dr.Pickering is really losing sleep over an issue like this. He needs to set his priority in order. Only if he is losing some real money via the investment club then he would lose sleep. He is too much into this issue and seems to want to twist the government's hands on the... more
Lb
July 28, 2010 - 9:41 AM AST ▪ Like ▪ Dislike ( 3 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Apparently you have no idea of the far reaching ramifications of "this issue"!
to resident
July 28, 2010 - 10:13 AM AST ▪ Like ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
why do u all always say that the BVI Investment Club are the NDP member isnt there anyone on the VIP in this club you need to get your fax wright before u talk
to "to resident"
July 28, 2010 - 11:45 AM AST ▪ Like ( 8 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
If are to get our "fax wright", or our 'facts right' then let us see this register of publicly-declared interests and then we will know which NDP and VIP politicians belong to the BVI Investment Club. But as long as this register is hidden from public view, so are the facts.
Rick
July 27, 2010 - 4:34 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 4 ) ▪ Dislike ( 2 ) ▪ Report Abuse
these guys is 6 of one half dozen is the next> So they need to go sit down...all of them.

They love to play point the finger, and we jsut sitting around being lead astray like lost sheep.
Games
July 27, 2010 - 4:28 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Hon Malone was the first one to give contributions on this matter passionantly at the same sitting he is the one who rolled the ball and he was the one who spoke before Doc pickering did he is not even mentioned in this article. Hon Pickering during his contribution even commended him for talking... more
do not forget
July 27, 2010 - 10:14 PM AST ▪ Like ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
i recall reading an entire article on the malone on the issue
to Games
July 28, 2010 - 12:01 AM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
So what did Mr Malone say?
Really??
July 27, 2010 - 3:22 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 40 ) ▪ Dislike ( 9 ) ▪ Report Abuse
So will the BVI Investment Club really fail because they can't get their hands on the government's money ? If so, are we really to be sorry? What if all the investment clubs in the BVI decide to create investments that target the government's purse? I'm sorry, but this group of people insists... more
Lb
July 27, 2010 - 5:19 PM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 18 ) ▪ Report Abuse
You really have no idea of what the long term implications of this disenfranchisment is do you?

We continue to be crabs in barrels and rather see our own fail than admire their success and try to emulate it.

There is nothing "selfish" about this situation. It is simple... more
To LB
July 28, 2010 - 12:04 AM AST ▪ Like ( 15 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
What do you mean 'admire their success and try to emulate it"? How can we emulate it when its all you owning 50% of everything and getting goverment to make the laws to facilitate you and your projects? As a commenter said above, Open up the Club to ALL BVIslanders, why not share the love?
In response to "To Lb"
July 28, 2010 - 8:44 AM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
Everybody doesn't have to belong to the BVI Investment Club -- start your own. The club has helped several other investment clubs get started in the territory, and even helped set up one in the USVI. Ask them to help you and your friends set up one of your own. Stop envying and hating and help... more
mmm
July 28, 2010 - 9:21 AM AST ▪ Like ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
dont forget the high school
Lb
July 28, 2010 - 9:46 AM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 8 ) ▪ Report Abuse
The Club has been open to other members! The Club has gone on to spear head the formation of at least four other Investment Clubs. These other clubs each have 20 members or so that are doing their own investments and doing well.

But you want to sit back on your *** and want these men and... more
to LB
July 28, 2010 - 11:47 AM AST ▪ Like ( 14 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
No we don't want to force the BVI Investment Club to give up what it has worked so hard for, we just want to stop the CONFLICT OF INTEREST between politicians belonging to that club and formulating government policy to benefit themselves.
To LB
July 28, 2010 - 7:52 PM AST ▪ Like ( 10 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Methinks that it is only the BVI Investment Club that is the one going to be the 50% local partners of all your marinas and 5-star htotels you proposing. Methinks the othr investment clubs only get your leavings. You all GREEDY
Scary Mary
July 27, 2010 - 2:40 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 53 ) ▪ Dislike ( 16 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Honourable Pickering seems to have forgotten that the NDP managed to completely disenfranchise the majority of the voters when they refused to listen to us when we told them that we did not want all the developments they had planned. In particular, we did not want the Beef Island development. Yet... more
Noriega
July 27, 2010 - 4:08 PM AST ▪ Like ( 6 ) ▪ Dislike ( 10 ) ▪ Report Abuse
You got to be joking Scary. Biwater is the lesser of two evils???!!! Boy we some real clowns if that is the type of analogy we using. The VIP is ruining this country in quick and expensive spurts and we seem to think that is okay to vote them back in.
Lb
July 27, 2010 - 5:22 PM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 18 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Many kids don't want to eat their vegetables and only want junk food!

Does that mean their parents should just let them? Isn't it the parents' job to know what is best for their kids and give them the necessary protein to grow up big and strong and healthy?

Many times we ourselves lack... more
Nail on the Head
July 27, 2010 - 5:59 PM AST ▪ Like ( 21 ) ▪ Dislike ( 4 ) ▪ Report Abuse
I could not have said it better my self and yes the Beef Island project is still there on the list and they are hell bend on making it happen with or without the people input.
to LB
July 28, 2010 - 12:06 AM AST ▪ Like ( 12 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
So you are hell bent on dictatorship? You see yourself doing projects that the people DON'T WANT and have let you know LOUD and CLEAR, but you say that is what is good for us and that is what we are going to get. That doesn't sound very democratic to me.
Scary Mary
July 28, 2010 - 7:07 AM AST ▪ Like ( 18 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
LB, politicians are not our parents, they are EMPLOYEES of the people. It is a politicians job to work FOR and ON BEHALF of their constituents and to take care of those things their constituents WANT taken care of. We are big people, not children!

Look at the Scrub island development. It is a... more
Lb
July 28, 2010 - 9:53 AM AST ▪ Like ( 2 ) ▪ Dislike ( 10 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Not all. I am a US Citizen and I know far better than you can, the value of a democratic society.

The BVI is by far NOT a democracy....as yet.

However, if everytime, the Leaders of any country has to stop at every move, because this group doesnt want this while the other group doesnt want... more
to LB
July 28, 2010 - 7:25 PM AST ▪ Like ( 11 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
leverick bay and Long bay are indeed eyesores. you can see long bay with poorly designed condos eating up the hill side from the water miles away. it has both a water and sewerage problems. Smugglers was saved (so far) from distruction signed off on by NDP that allowed proposed park land to go... more
Entrepreneur
July 27, 2010 - 2:29 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 39 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
In a way I understand what Pickering is saying as the BVI Investment Club benefits a lot of people. However I tend to believe that this business of "disenfranchising BVI People" is often abused. From what I have seen only a few individuals ever benefit from this because realistically... more
Question
July 27, 2010 - 3:38 PM AST ▪ Like ( 5 ) ▪ Dislike ( 3 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Where is the competition on the OC/BiWater situation? Government is the sole customer so please spare us all your antics. Also, can you confirm that OC was the highest charging water company on the island?? I think not!
Voter
July 27, 2010 - 3:42 PM AST ▪ Like ( 7 ) ▪ Dislike ( 6 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Yes a few BVIslanders. But only Adrian White alone benefiting from Bi water. Talk about bad minded people against they own. You all just deserve the crooked government you get.
Zoe
July 27, 2010 - 2:27 PM AST | Reply ▪ Like ( 28 ) ▪ Dislike ( 10 ) ▪ Report Abuse
Rumors have it that they asked Bi water to give back the money. Now Delta suing Electricity. What's up Premier and Fraser. shed some light on these rumors. Talk about government in secret and curruption.
Pat
July 28, 2010 - 4:56 PM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
They are not rumors anymore. They are all breaking news.
the real pat
July 28, 2010 - 7:29 PM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ( 1 ) ▪ Report Abuse
please find your own handle. I have been "pat" for years. should I become LB or scary mary? no. that is their identity. I'm just sayin'... be more aware. thank you.
sherry
July 29, 2010 - 1:04 PM AST ▪ Like ( 3 ) ▪ Dislike ▪ Report Abuse
(why is there a dislike on "the real Pat"? All he/she is saying is be careful in identification so certain opinions do not get attributed to the wrong Pat... we all try to be careful with what we say and how we say it... or should be...)
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